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Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

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  • 1.  Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-13-2023 13:13
    No replies, thread closed.

    Hi all,

    I must be having a very bad day to ask this but what's the difference between the Interaction ID and the Conversation ID? When I search the help I'm redirected here: 

    https://help.mypurecloud.com/articles/get-conversation-id-support/  - Get a conversation ID for Customer Care

    What (to my surprise) explains me how to copy the interaction ID.

    From what I recall from the API course last year they are 2 different things, unless my brain is now playing tricks with me.

    So lets then try this:

    Take interaction ID from a dialler call and use that to add the nrs on the record into a DNC table:

    POST     /api/v2/outbound/conversations/{conversationId}/dnc
    The results are:
    "message": "You are not authorized to perform the requested action.",
     "code": "not.authorized",
     "status": 403,
     "contextId":"bb01ad61-77f2-4777-935f-a1d7d0e70b78",
     "details": [],
     "errors": []
    Wait, I'm a master admin, telephony admin and an outbound admin and I'm not allowed to add the record?
    Yes there is a DNC table assigned to the campaign
    I need to figure this out because we need to comply with UK regulations. When we abandon a call we're not allowed to dial that record back within 72 hours from any campaign. but if we dial again a number related to that record within the 72 hours we need to ensure there is an agent available to handle that call.
    so I need to setup a rule that adds the number for a record to a DNC list with an expiration timer of 73 hours AND we want to add the record to Preview Campaign which requires the agent to place the call so yes we comply with both regulation points.
    Yup my brain isn't in gear today. I'm for whatever reason today not on the ball, being new to this all.
    Anyone who can straighten me out here please?


    #Integrations
    #Outbound

    ------------------------------
    Ruud Reinold
    BNP Paribas Personal Finance UK
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-14-2023 12:23
    No replies, thread closed.

    I am trying to reply to this part of your question ->

    "I need to setup a rule that adds the number for a record to a DNC list with an expiration timer of 73 hours AND we want to add the record to Preview Campaign which requires the agent to place the call so yes we comply with both regulation points."

    You can use wrap up rule that  'Append DNC Number' to a DNC list associated to your Campaign where you can set expiration of entry as well. You need to assign ruleset containing this rule to the Campaign that you want to enforce on. And assign DNC list to any Campaign that needs to block based on this DNC list..

    Info on Call rules -> 

    https://help.mypurecloud.com/articles/configure-rule-actions/

    https://help.mypurecloud.com/articles/add-rule/



    ------------------------------
    Kavita Mantripragada
    Genesys - Employees
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-15-2023 07:59
    Edited by Rudy Reinold 03-20-2023 10:19
    No replies, thread closed.
    Many thanks for your response. I knew that one but it only adds the current number used in the outbound dial and not the other numbers on that record. We also set the record to uncallable. However next time the record is dialled from a different campaign (we don't use the same contact lists as these campaigns run in parallel) it uses another number and that's when we breach the telco regulations in the UK so that particular wrap action is unfortunately not the solution. 
    I also thought, well if I write one record I can pull back the expirationDateTime and use that writing the other numbers, but there's no API that support that ��
    I'm now able to write three numbers into the DNC table using a data action but by the looks of it I first need to pull the nrs from the contact list and then I need to generate the expirationDateTime before adding that and then write the nrs in the DNC list. Additionally the whole record then need to be written into a different Abandoned contact list to keep track of the data since the contact list is cleared out overnight all records (including the abandoned) is then reloaded as new records and we can break again regulations.
    So multiple challenges here.
    Kind regards,
    Ruud Reinold
    Telecom Manager
    BNP Paribas Personal Finance UK



  • 4.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-15-2023 09:30
    No replies, thread closed.

    We have new type of DNC list (internal custom dnc list)  that we released recently that blocks entire record of contact list by matching value in DNC list against value in column of ContactList (column in contactlist is custom exclusion column defined on DNC list)..  This DNC list supported as part of call rules as well

    https://help.mypurecloud.com/articles/create-a-new-internal-custom-dnc-list/

    Please see if it meets your needs. 



    ------------------------------
    Kavita Mantripragada
    Genesys - Employees
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-17-2023 07:16
    No replies, thread closed.
    Unfortunately that's not writing all the phone numbers either to the DNC table and as customers may have multiple accounts it's the numbers that need on the DNC list not the accounts

    It's very basic and I could do it with PureConnect. I'm afraid this is a step backwards and in need of some urgent attention in order to make the product compliant with UK regulations. How could this be missed?

    Kind regards,
    Ruud Reinold

    Telecom Manager
    BNP Paribas Personal Finance UK



    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-17-2023 11:11
    No replies, thread closed.

    I am sure there must be a way to solve this problem. I can't think of any at this moment as I don't understand the specifics of regulation on what it means by record.  Whether it is a phone number or contact with "same account number" across all contact lists or contact with "different account number" across all contact lists with same phone number(s).  Meanwhile, it looks like you worked around it using data actions.

    I am going to bring attention to this post to people who keeps track of regulations and also who are familiar with PureConnect so that they can add requirement to our requirements board (if it doesn't exist already)..



    ------------------------------
    Kavita Mantripragada
    Genesys - Employees
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-17-2023 11:45
    No replies, thread closed.

    Hi Ruud,

    Hope you're well. It's been a while!

    There are a few ways of achieving what you are trying and keeping you within Ofcom Regs.

    What most people do is use the Preview Mode Column on the contact list. By assigning a value (that you configure) to this it means you can have a record dialled in Preview mode no matter what mode you are using on the Campaign. This means you wouldn't have to worry about re-abandoning the record as the agent would control the dialling. You'd also be able to use the column to do something on the script to make the agent aware there had been previous abandoned calls. This function is described here: https://help.mypurecloud.com/articles/create-new-contact-list/

    Another option with the DNC table is to use the new feature we have released where you could use a piece of information other than a phone number. So it might be a reference number or something that is unique to that customer and would be in all of your contact lists: https://help.mypurecloud.com/articles/create-a-new-internal-custom-dnc-list/. By using this and sharing that DNC table across all of the Campaigns you can ensure if the customer is in multiple Campaigns you won't dial them until the 72 hours expiry.

    You could also just do the typical and set a callback for 72 hours later :-)

    Using either of these methods will save you having to create a secondary campaign for your abandoned calls.

    Hope that helps,



    ------------------------------
    Craig Stevenson
    Genesys - Employees
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-20-2023 09:28
    Edited by Rudy Reinold 03-20-2023 10:20
    No replies, thread closed.

    Hi Craig,

     

    It's indeed a long time.

     

    Unfortunately your solution works only for less than 24 hours, let me explain that

     

    Due to Genesys Cloud being unable to use filters to separate the contact lists we have to split the contact list in several (our case 10) separate lists. This makes managing of the lists and DNC a tad challenging.

    Further to that every night the contact lists are getting dumped and reloaded therefore any historical information will be lost and there is where the possibility of breaches occurs therefore all the record related numbers must go into a DNC table shared by all campaigns to prevent OFCOM breaches.

     

    As you are aware in the UK we have to exclude under OFCOM regulations the whole record and not just the number dialled. Unfortunately, none of the update methods provided will place all numbers on the DNC table.

    I can of course use the account number if it was not for the fact that the account numbers for the same person vary per product and therefore will still dial the numbers assigned to a record with a different product account number for that customer.

     

    Hence I need to be able to set ALL numbers to 73 hours exclusion not just one

     

    In addition to that we need to transfer the record details into a different table to preserve that data and to be able to run that as continuous pre-view campaign during the periods added.

     

    Kind Regards,

    Ruud Reinold

     



  • 9.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-20-2023 14:05
    No replies, thread closed.

    Hey Ruud!

    OK, so a couple of things to unpick / suggest here...

    Firstly the need for multiple campaigns. As Craig said, this shouldn't be necessary. Genesys Cloud has the ability to trigger Preview calling based on a value in a column, so instead of moving the contact(s) to a second contact list for Preview, just update the Contact list in question to flip the value in that column.

    Now, the DNC. You have yourself a right pickle there! I understand what you say about a customer having multiple account numbers for different products, but if your data is fully normalized, then there should be a single customer account behind the scenes (unless you are duplicating customer data?) If that is the case, then export the Customer ID as well as the Account number etc. and do your DNC using Customer ID. If you ARE storing the same customer data multiple times, may I recommend taking this up with your DBA?

    Just my 10 cents... (Or in your case, pence!)



    ------------------------------
    Paul Simpson
    Eventus Solutions Group
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-20-2023 14:51
    No replies, thread closed.

    Hey Paul,

    I know that it can trigger that but that call list only exists for 20 hours and then vanishes and there may be never a second attempt on that record during the 10 hours we do dial.

    It was build that way, If the record is abandoned we set a Y in the ABANDONED column, then the next time it passes it is set to preview dial. But here's the flaw in that.

    When the list is deleted and reloaded from the core systems (and No there is no single customer view so there are 4 different sources that feed into the 10 dialler lists) then the core systems are not aware of the abandoned call and thus the new load contains that record without the Y in the ABANDONED so that would create a breach

    When we add the ACCOUNT in the new Custom Exclusion List then we block the record but other accounts with the same numbers still will dial happily dial out what can be another breach of the regulations.

    Therefore the solution suggested isn't viable for a 3 day period we need to exclude the record(s) from automated dialling.

    Hence I have a hard time in finding a workable solution to achieve several things:

    1. Stay within regulations by exclusion of the Numbers (which is challenge one)
    2. Work arounds are to exclude the records (but that is not a fail proof solution)
    3. Create a work around the exclusions by copying the details form excluded records to a separate preview campaign that doesn't use the DNC tables.

    Over the past weeks I have found many shortcoming's of the Cloud dialler vs the Pure Connect one

    1. I can't retrieve data action information to use in the call rules
    2. You can't find the expirationDateTime date back using a Data Action to outbound API's as there are no Get actions
    3. I can get an expirationDateTime using an free API but that retrieved information I can't use to update the contact list because the Contact List GUID is not exposed in the rules and I can't retrieve data from a Data Action back into the dialler rules.
    4. The numbers aren't exposed to exclude only the current used nr is and can be added to the DNC list
    5. I have no Time triggers to do regular API lookups to do updates on call lists based on a time trigger.

    therefore I really wonder how this dialler can be classed as compliant for the UK market and there are a few massive holes here that development should plug ASAP and I'm willing to talk with the developers to explain in detail what the issues are we face.



    ------------------------------
    Ruud Reinold
    BNP Paribas Personal Finance UK
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-20-2023 15:09
    Edited by Paul Simpson 03-20-2023 15:10
    No replies, thread closed.

    Hmm, yes, I see your problem.

    Ok, so how about this? Can you arrange for one particular number to always be consistent across all data sources? (Say the Home).

    What you could then do is to create a custom DNC but base it on that common phone number (instead of an account number). That way, the entire record would be excluded (which is what I believe you want?) It might look a bit hinky, but if it works....

    To be fair to Genesys, I think most people who throw away their lists each day usually bring the data from the list back into their CRMs prior to replacing them - in that way the "Preview" column could be preserved.

    ------------------------------
    Paul Simpson
    Eventus Solutions Group
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-20-2023 18:14
    No replies, thread closed.
    If you just knew how rubbish the data is.... Not even the numbers are in E164 so that is something else I need to deal with on import as well.

    I can't tell about what is general across platforms either there's a project that would bring a single customer view but that's years from happening. 

    Just hoping that one of the developers can assist with the other question I posted on the dev forum about record input because then I may have a workaround. Though I miss the old PureConnect dialler I'm getting old ��

    Kind regards,
    Ruud Reinold

    Telecom Manager
    BNP Paribas Personal Finance UK



    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-20-2023 19:59
    No replies, thread closed.

    Sorry, my Friend, I'm outa ideas! 😥



    ------------------------------
    Paul Simpson
    Eventus Solutions Group
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Outbound Dialler and adding to DNC table

    Posted 03-21-2023 04:55
    No replies, thread closed.

    Other than what has been suggested, another couple of ideas would be:

    1. Update the customer record in the all CRMs to NOT be exported for 73 hours (if you can)
    2. Use Process Automation. With the acd.end event you could trigger a Workflow. Filter it down to Outbound calls on a particular Queue. Look to see if tAbandoned or nOutboundAbandoned metrics are present, then cycle through the numbers for the record and use a Data Action to add them to an appropriate DNC list. This way you can add ALL numbers for the record.

    With having multiple places where you are keeping the customer details are you not still risking calling them? What if you have different numbers for that customer across your CRMs? You could still end up calling them as part of a Campaign. The safest method would be to find a common denominator across all those systems of record and using that as your DNC value, but, if that's not possible, then I think we've given you a few options here to consider.



    ------------------------------
    Craig Stevenson
    Genesys - Employees
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


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